A Conversation with Audrey Rose Arnold and Albert Rudnitsky
Arnold and Rudnitsky discuss their new production of Beth Henley's CRIMES OF THE HEART
Josh Feye: Hello!
Audrey Rose Arnold: Hi, Josh. This is Audrey, and I have Albert here too.
Josh Feye: Hi, you guys! It's lovely to talk with you both. Thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me—I really do appreciate it.
ARA: Likewise.
JF: So, you two are producing a new production in collaboration with Jersey City Theater Center of Crimes of the Heart. Audrey, you're starring in it, and Albert, you directed it. Crimes of the Heart premiered in 1979, and we haven’t seen a major revival in quite some time. What made you feel like now was the right time to bring it back?
ARA: Oh, good question. I think there were two things going on. One was just where we were in our lives as creatives. Albert had worked on Anora, and I was also involved with that in some capacity. I actually started talking to Lindsey—who plays Diamond in Anora—about Crimes of the Heart, because a mutual friend of ours had mentioned working on it in an acting class. Lindsey had been working on one of the parts for years, and it was clearly a very meaningful role for her. So we started talking about the play casually, and it sparked something in me—a curiosity about it again. I went back, reread it, and realized how rich it really is. A lot of people encounter this play in drama school or acting classes, and I hadn’t thought about it deeply in a while. But rereading it, I saw how much depth it has—the human relationships, the psychology. Albert comes from the Moscow Art Theater tradition, this very rich Russian theatre background, and has worked with Chekhov’s plays. So I thought, maybe he’d be interested in this—it has some similarities. I gave it to him to read, although I wasn’t sure he’d be up for it at first, since it’s so rooted in the Southern U.S., and he doesn’t have firsthand experience with that culture.
Albert Rudinetsky: She introduced me to the material by saying it had something Chekhovian about it. I started reading it, and honestly, at first, I didn’t see the connection—it felt like a totally different nature. But yes, continue, and I’ll come back to that.
ARA: I must’ve seen just enough of the kind of psychological richness we both enjoy. We’re both really interested in psychological theater. This play has a lot of depth, but also this element of absurdity that Albert, as a director, really appreciates—and I love as an actor. So we felt like there was a lot to explore and play with—to present the material in a new way. We’ve approached it from a fresh angle. It’s very different from the typical staging, and we’ve added some musical elements as well. I feel like we’ve really found our own key into Beth Henley’s amazing writing and this incredible play, through our specific artistic lens.
AR: Yeah, I’ll add something—I'll try to keep it brief. My first impression was that I just personally connected with the material. It’s a really well-written play, and even though I grew up in a completely different environment—far from the Southern U.S.—it still resonated with me. The story of the family, the relationships between the sisters, what they’re going through—it really hit home. I actually grew up in a family with three sisters, so it was like, “Wow, this is about me.” I saw myself in it. So even though the setting is unfamiliar, the emotional world felt very close.
JF: And you mentioned you added songs. I was looking at production photos, and it’s a very minimalist set, too. Are you aiming for a kind of distancing effect with the production? Are you trying to make the audience aware that they’re watching a play in 2025, even though it takes place in the 1970s?
AR: I would say that, in general, my approach to theatre isn’t literal. The stage doesn’t always have to represent a literal space. Yes, the play is written to take place entirely in a kitchen, and I’ve seen several productions that present it that way—very traditional and realistic. But I love having the freedom not to create a literal environment. It allows me to play with the elements in a different way. That’s something theatre does uniquely well—it opens up your imagination.
ARA: Right, and I think there’s intentionality in how we’ve approached it. We have specific details—the old-fashioned phone, the bric-a-brac on the table—that place it in the past. Nothing is overtly contemporary; it could exist in the ’70s. But there’s also a sense that we could be anywhere, anytime. The characters are dressed in ’70s attire, but we’re not strictly trying to replicate the ’70s. We’re not saying, “Everything has to look like the ’70s, and everyone has to act like they’re in the ’70s.” We wanted to build something fresh and rooted in our interpretation of the material.
AR: I wouldn’t say I set out to make something unique. I think uniqueness just happens naturally when you approach the material honestly and with a strong connection to it. When you’re not bound by literalism, but instead play with specific details—a phone, a table—you open the door for the audience’s imagination to engage. That’s one of the things I love about theatre. Like in Shakespeare—he’ll say, “Now we’re in the forest” and boom, we’re in the forest. Or we’re in a car. One element can transport you anywhere. So yeah, I hope that answers the question.
JF: Yes! So, how was the process of putting it up?
ARA: Well, we did a workshop in December, which went up at the Gene Frankel. That process started way back in late October with Zoom reads, table work, and discussions. We kept touching base, reading through scenes, and eventually decided, “Okay, we’re really going to do this.” When the workshop came together, it happened very quickly. Initially, we thought it would be more of a staged reading with some physical elements—but that quickly became uninteresting. So we just went for it and mounted a full workshop production. We ran it enough times that the actors were mostly off-book, even though we technically had scripts in hand. It turned into a fully lived-in performance by the time we opened on December 13th and 14th.
AR: And even though it was still a workshop, I really enjoyed it. It gave the actors space to explore without the pressure of perfection. That’s something beautiful—when you can take risks and discover.
ARA: We definitely made mistakes…
AR: Yeah—but in a good way, I think. When you don’t have pressure, you can be more playful. You can take a little distance, step out of it, and come back in—it’s freeing.
ARA: I remember in the workshop, there was this one scene—Lenny was supposed to have a lighter, and she couldn’t find it. I could feel her starting to panic. I was under a sheet at the time and just shouted, “Does anyone in the audience have a lighter?” Everyone laughed. Someone even handed one over. It endeared us to the audience, and I think that was the right energy to have.
AR: Yeah, as an actor, when something unexpected happens, it brings the moment to life. It becomes a real situation—you’re solving it in real-time, and the audience gets to be part of it. They witness the problem and how you deal with it. It’s a fun part of the process.
ARA: And then for this full production, we rehearsed all through March. We started a little in late February over Zoom, then transitioned into in-person work. We had about twelve full days—not a ton, but we made the most of it. Most of the cast is from the workshop, so we had a foundation.
AR: Yeah, it’s hard work—emotionally and physically—but that’s how it should be.
JF: And that’s a long time to live with a character. That’s rare in the American theatre now—to stay with a role or a play for that long. Audrey, you’re playing Babe in the play. She’s chaotic, and there’s a lot of darkness there. What do you love most about her?
ARA: Oh my gosh—I really love her. It’s not that she’s nonchalant, but she has this way of letting some things roll off her completely, while other things just open her up. Suddenly, she’s telling you this whole story. It’s fascinating. She’s got these two versions of herself that are constantly vying for control. That’s exciting to play. I find that if I come at Babe from a place of deep joy and sensitivity, it opens the door to all her pain and violence too. The higher I go with her joy, the further I can fall when things spiral. That spectrum is fun to explore. And Albert talks about not staying at what he calls “36 and 6”—basically, not playing it safe or comfortable. Babe is never in a comfortable zone. I’m always trying to explore how she gets to these volatile, impulsive moments authentically. What conditions bring her to that turn on a dime? It’s exhausting but exhilarating. And I think learning how to pivot like that, in real-time, over the course of nearly three hours—that’s something I’ll carry with me for the rest of my acting career.
JF: And you’re producing Crimes of the Heart with your production company—Motherfather Productions. Is this your first theatrical production for the company?
AR: Yeah!
JF: What’s the ethos of MotherFather Productions?
ARA: Oh, I love it! I’d say—to boldly go where the story takes us. No holding back. We are a scrappy little duo, and we make things happen no matter what.
AR: Yeah. For me, it has to start with a deep connection. Whatever the project is, we have to feel truly resonant with it.
ARA: And then we go all the way.
AR: Right. We don’t have a fixed mission statement like “We only tell these kinds of stories.” If something grabs us, we’re in it. We want to go as far as we can with like-minded artists who are equally committed.
ARA: Especially in the indie film and indie theatre spaces—that’s all you have. Your passion, your love for it, and your kind of... craziness.
AR: And we’re mostly interested in creating independently—projects where we have artistic freedom. Not necessarily huge, studio-backed productions, but things where we can truly express ourselves and connect with the material deeply.
JF: And Albert, as was mentioned, you worked on Anora with Sean Baker, who gave a great speech at the Independent Spirit Awards about how hard it is to be an indie filmmaker. Do either of you feel optimistic about where things are going in this landscape?
AR: Yeah, I would say, I’m not into taking the easy path. I don’t think any creative person should be. Challenges are necessary—but not ones you manufacture yourself. If you can be real and have artistic freedom, it’s better to take the difficult path and create something small but true to you.
ARA: I think in terms of optimism about the future of cinema—it’s hard. You have to be realistic. Across all industries, there are more and more mergers, more conglomerates owning the means of production. And when that happens, fewer voices get heard. It might be packaged differently, but it’s still coming from one monolithic source. Sean was super inspiring. I didn’t work in a credited role on Anora, I mostly hung out and chatted with people, but what I took away from that was the sheer tenacity—to do it your own way and believe in yourself. It’s not cheesy when someone’s done that for 25 years, sacrificing the whole time. He didn’t have children—he made real sacrifices.
AR: Sean is a great example of someone committed to and believing in what he’s doing.
ARA: And platforms like TikTok, YouTube, Vimeo—they can help. If you put your work out there, you can meet like-minded people, make things, and find your audience. So, yeah, I’m cautiously optimistic—with an eye on reality. You shouldn’t have pipe dreams, but you should still dream.
AR: Can I add something small? For me, being a professional artist doesn’t mean serving a production you don’t believe in. Even if you’re highly trained—what’s the point if there's no truthful impulse behind it? Life is short. We all should have a light bulb on in the back of our minds—reminding us not to waste our energy and spirit.
JF: That’s a great answer. Now, I have some fun questions for you both. Do you have a favorite film about the theatre?
ARA: Wait, should we say it at the same time? 1, 2, 3...
Both: Ghost Light!
JF: Oh yes! I saw it last summer. It’s so good.
ARA: I met the filmmakers at Lighthouse Film Festival—they were in the audience watching with us. It was so special. They're so humble, but I was like, “You made a masterpiece.” And they were there with their baby stroller—it was crazy.
AR: A great example of honest and talented work.
ARA: There are many others, but that’s our latest favorite.
JF: Is there a theater artist, living or dead, that you’d love to take out for a drink?
ARA: Bob Wilson—for a very fun martini situation.
JF: That sounds great.
AR: Okay, someone alive—Luk Perceval.
ARA: They’d probably go out for kombucha because neither of them drink.
AR: He’s the artistic director of Thalia Theater in Hamburg. He’s originally from Belgium—absolutely incredible.
JF: What have you seen lately that you’d recommend? Plays, film, TV?
ARA: Krymov Lab is awesome. I’m obsessed with them—their cast, their puppets. Their theatre inspires me.
AR: Same. I grew up on the work of Krymov’s father, Efros. He’s one of my biggest influences. His book The Joy of Rehearsal—I’d recommend it to everyone.
ARA: Yeah! Every actor or theatremaker should read it. It’s inspiring and beautiful—he puts into perspective multiple rehearsals of iconic plays in an insightful way.
AR: Oh, and the last episode of Severance.
ARA: Yes! We thought it was really fun!
CRIMES OF THE HEART runs through March 30th at the Jersey City Theater Center. Buy Tickets here.
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